Comments for The Innovative Mission Group http://timg.vineage.com A mission think tank and resource team. Tue, 02 Dec 2008 09:03:48 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=wordpress-mu-1.2.1 Comment on Report: The Movement in Tepic, Nayarit Mexico by Tammy http://timg.vineage.com/projects/report-the-movement-in-tepic-nayarit-mexico/#comment-88 Tammy Fri, 11 Apr 2008 06:27:13 +0000 http://timg.vineage.com/projects/report-the-movement-in-tepic-nayarit-mexico/#comment-88 The best thing I can do for this wonderful source is to say that I’m a biggest fan of this website The best thing I can do for this wonderful source is to say that I’m a biggest fan of this website

]]> Comment on Report: The Movement in Tepic, Nayarit Mexico by Ron http://timg.vineage.com/projects/report-the-movement-in-tepic-nayarit-mexico/#comment-30 Ron Mon, 15 Oct 2007 15:42:00 +0000 http://timg.vineage.com/projects/report-the-movement-in-tepic-nayarit-mexico/#comment-30 Praise His Name! I am so excited to hear of "quality growth". May Our gracious Lord move mightily in these hearts and may the incredible power of the Gospel bring these into the kingdom! Blessings to our brothers and sisters in Nayarit! Ron Praise His Name! I am so excited to hear of “quality growth”. May Our gracious Lord move mightily in these hearts and may the incredible power of the Gospel bring these into the kingdom!

Blessings to our brothers and sisters in Nayarit!

Ron

]]> Comment on Report: The Movement in Tepic, Nayarit Mexico by mary http://timg.vineage.com/projects/report-the-movement-in-tepic-nayarit-mexico/#comment-29 mary Sun, 14 Oct 2007 23:53:32 +0000 http://timg.vineage.com/projects/report-the-movement-in-tepic-nayarit-mexico/#comment-29 I rejoice with you and pray for you and the ministry. I rejoice with you and pray for you and the ministry.

]]> Comment on Report: The Movement in Tepic, Nayarit Mexico by brett29 http://timg.vineage.com/projects/report-the-movement-in-tepic-nayarit-mexico/#comment-28 brett29 Sun, 14 Oct 2007 02:16:12 +0000 http://timg.vineage.com/projects/report-the-movement-in-tepic-nayarit-mexico/#comment-28 Great report and i love the pic as well. i am in Seattle right now at a tully's. I am praying for you guys, keep sharing the love and peace, the joy that is in knowing our lord and saviour Jesus! Keep playing that music too! Great report and i love the pic as well. i am in Seattle right now at a tully’s. I am praying for you guys, keep sharing the love and peace, the joy that is in knowing our lord and saviour Jesus! Keep playing that music too!

]]> Comment on What will church “look like” in the VineAge (future)? by Tom Hackett http://timg.vineage.com/discussions/what-%e2%80%9cwill%e2%80%9d-church-look-like-in-the-vineage-future/#comment-27 Tom Hackett Sat, 04 Aug 2007 17:01:38 +0000 http://timg.vineage.com/discussions/what-%e2%80%9cwill%e2%80%9d-church-look-like-in-the-vineage-future/#comment-27 When I refer to the "traditonal" church I am referring to an organizational model, the hierarchal and lineal structure instituted by Constantine, not the biblical church or all that it implies through the scripture. My struggle is with what we have accepted as "biblical" when it comes to organizational models. The need to be together is at the heart of the Christian experience. By being together and worshiping, instructing, serving, etc. we are truly living out the Kingdom life in communty. What we need to recognize is the place we have given the hierarchal and lineal model when God does things in many different ways. God does not live in a temple built by mans hands nor is he limited to organizational models created by or governed by man. In a different post I refer to organizational models <a href="http://timg.vineage.com/home/3-ways-of-getting-things-donehierarchy-heterarchy-responsible-autonomy/" rel="nofollow">"Hierarchy, Heterarchy and Responsible Autonomy"</a> that work equally well in facilitating God's Kingdom. This may sound like I am anti-traditional church...I am not. I attend and love my traditional church. The point I am making is that there are other organizational models that work...and maybe work better or becoming more of a reality with technology and a changing world. The global VineAge community is based on the Responsible Autonomy systems model but the individual communities may function in other organizational models. When I refer to the “traditonal” church I am referring to an organizational model, the hierarchal and lineal structure instituted by Constantine, not the biblical church or all that it implies through the scripture. My struggle is with what we have accepted as “biblical” when it comes to organizational models. The need to be together is at the heart of the Christian experience. By being together and worshiping, instructing, serving, etc. we are truly living out the Kingdom life in communty. What we need to recognize is the place we have given the hierarchal and lineal model when God does things in many different ways. God does not live in a temple built by mans hands nor is he limited to organizational models created by or governed by man. In a different post I refer to organizational models “Hierarchy, Heterarchy and Responsible Autonomy” that work equally well in facilitating God’s Kingdom. This may sound like I am anti-traditional church…I am not. I attend and love my traditional church. The point I am making is that there are other organizational models that work…and maybe work better or becoming more of a reality with technology and a changing world. The global VineAge community is based on the Responsible Autonomy systems model but the individual communities may function in other organizational models.

]]> Comment on What will church “look like” in the VineAge (future)? by Donald C Weber MD http://timg.vineage.com/discussions/what-%e2%80%9cwill%e2%80%9d-church-look-like-in-the-vineage-future/#comment-26 Donald C Weber MD Sat, 04 Aug 2007 16:45:31 +0000 http://timg.vineage.com/discussions/what-%e2%80%9cwill%e2%80%9d-church-look-like-in-the-vineage-future/#comment-26 Although the traditional Church may have it's drawbacks, i.e. controversial regulations and person to person incompatabilities, it is (should be) a spiritual gathering place that provides an opportunity to learn, discuss experiences and vocally praise THE LORD as a single body. We all need parameters of some degree, especially early in our Christain education. Without group meeting places as "The Way" was expounded, I personally doubt we would have witnessed the expansion of Christianity, and Saint Paul may not have been able to disseminate the wonderful message of "saving grace". Outreach is a wonderful componant of our church body and affords us the opportunity to serve as God directs each and every one of us. We are not all made of the same componant talents so there are multiple ways to evangelize outside the traditional mission trips. Personally, I came to Christ through Sports ministry. Others through music, the arts, etc. The traditional church with pews is an institution that, in my opionion, is necessary to continue to expand Jesus's message. Further, to give all who listen and heed that message,comfort on earth and anticipation of everlasting life with our Father in Heaven. Although the traditional Church may have it’s drawbacks, i.e. controversial regulations and person to person incompatabilities, it is (should be) a spiritual gathering place that provides an opportunity to learn, discuss experiences and vocally praise THE LORD as a single body. We all need parameters of some degree, especially early in our Christain education. Without group meeting places as “The Way” was expounded, I personally doubt we would have witnessed the expansion of Christianity, and Saint Paul may not have been able to disseminate the wonderful message of “saving grace”. Outreach is a wonderful componant of our church body and affords us the opportunity to serve as God directs each and every one of us. We are not all made of the same componant talents so there are multiple ways to evangelize outside the traditional mission trips. Personally, I came to Christ through Sports ministry. Others through music, the arts, etc. The traditional church with pews is an institution that, in my opionion, is necessary to continue to expand Jesus’s message. Further, to give all who listen and heed that message,comfort on earth and anticipation of everlasting life with our Father in Heaven.

]]> Comment on What will church “look like” in the VineAge (future)? by Tom Hackett http://timg.vineage.com/discussions/what-%e2%80%9cwill%e2%80%9d-church-look-like-in-the-vineage-future/#comment-25 Tom Hackett Sat, 04 Aug 2007 16:21:56 +0000 http://timg.vineage.com/discussions/what-%e2%80%9cwill%e2%80%9d-church-look-like-in-the-vineage-future/#comment-25 Somehow the idea that VineAge is a "virtual church" (existing in essence or effect though not in actual fact) comes to peoples minds. This is not the intent... It is our friends, family, neighbors, people with common interests, etc.. VineAge provides tools to organize "real" (being an actual thing; having objective existence; not imaginary) people into real meet-ups and action. It is first real people meeting with the added benefit of being able to relate to and learn from the global Body of Christ. It is not church with people we never meet. It is first about facilitating real meetings and real relationships. The tools (websites and what they can do) are meant to make living the Christian life very practical and real and facilitate being together and accomplishing things together. The VineAge websites give us the ability to manage our relationships near and far. This ability extends our influence and connectivity to those we care about staying "close" to and living life with even though we can not be with them on a daily basis. Even though we are scattered we can stay close. The additional ability that VineAge gives us to observe, interact with and learn from others through the global networked community is a big bonus but not the "end". The idea is that real things happen from real people being together. Somehow the idea that VineAge is a “virtual church” (existing in essence or effect though not in actual fact) comes to peoples minds. This is not the intent… It is our friends, family, neighbors, people with common interests, etc.. VineAge provides tools to organize “real” (being an actual thing; having objective existence; not imaginary) people into real meet-ups and action. It is first real people meeting with the added benefit of being able to relate to and learn from the global Body of Christ. It is not church with people we never meet. It is first about facilitating real meetings and real relationships. The tools (websites and what they can do) are meant to make living the Christian life very practical and real and facilitate being together and accomplishing things together. The VineAge websites give us the ability to manage our relationships near and far. This ability extends our influence and connectivity to those we care about staying “close” to and living life with even though we can not be with them on a daily basis. Even though we are scattered we can stay close. The additional ability that VineAge gives us to observe, interact with and learn from others through the global networked community is a big bonus but not the “end”. The idea is that real things happen from real people being together.

]]> Comment on What will church “look like” in the VineAge (future)? by Deirdre Greer http://timg.vineage.com/discussions/what-%e2%80%9cwill%e2%80%9d-church-look-like-in-the-vineage-future/#comment-24 Deirdre Greer Sat, 04 Aug 2007 03:25:43 +0000 http://timg.vineage.com/discussions/what-%e2%80%9cwill%e2%80%9d-church-look-like-in-the-vineage-future/#comment-24 It is interesting to me, this idea that we can literally have a worldwide church body, and yet never meet one another in person. At least in this earthly body. Obviously, we are all part of the Body of Christ, and that is The Church, but I admit, I have been conditioned to feel I need that face to face connection. Since coming to Helene, that relational connection has become even more dear and necessary to me as I live in a culture that is much more relational than in the states. But the irony of this is that I have had to learn to keep connected with my family and friends back in the states via computer, rather than in person or on the phone! So, consequently, I guess I have learned to adapt. All that to say why not?! There is just no reason this can't work, at least for anyone willing to plug in so to speak, and engage in dialogue in a different way than tradition dictates. Perhaps it will take a little more effort, but quite possibly it won't. There are many churches in which people attend week after week, yet they are no more connected with the congregation than with the church down the road. Our God is a very big God, and He is there, wherever 2 or more gather, and I think it goes without saying that He doesn't just mean in person! The other obvious benefit is for those who simply have no physical church to attend where they live, or physically can't get to one. So, go Tom and go God! It is interesting to me, this idea that we can literally have a worldwide church body, and yet never meet one another in person. At least in this earthly body. Obviously, we are all part of the Body of Christ, and that is The Church, but I admit, I have been conditioned to feel I need that face to face connection. Since coming to Helene, that relational connection has become even more dear and necessary to me as I live in a culture that is much more relational than in the states. But the irony of this is that I have had to learn to keep connected with my family and friends back in the states via computer, rather than in person or on the phone! So, consequently, I guess I have learned to adapt. All that to say why not?! There is just no reason this can’t work, at least for anyone willing to plug in so to speak, and engage in dialogue in a different way than tradition dictates. Perhaps it will take a little more effort, but quite possibly it won’t. There are many churches in which people attend week after week, yet they are no more connected with the congregation than with the church down the road. Our God is a very big God, and He is there, wherever 2 or more gather, and I think it goes without saying that He doesn’t just mean in person! The other obvious benefit is for those who simply have no physical church to attend where they live, or physically can’t get to one. So, go Tom and go God!

]]> Comment on What will church “look like” in the VineAge (future)? by Danny Vaughan http://timg.vineage.com/discussions/what-%e2%80%9cwill%e2%80%9d-church-look-like-in-the-vineage-future/#comment-23 Danny Vaughan Fri, 03 Aug 2007 13:44:25 +0000 http://timg.vineage.com/discussions/what-%e2%80%9cwill%e2%80%9d-church-look-like-in-the-vineage-future/#comment-23 I don't know what the church of the future will look like...definitely different from today in many ways. My observations are that people leaving the "traditional" church because they are frustrated in a couple of ways. Church leaders may label the phenomena as people just wanting independence or not willing to be "subject to authority" or some other rationalization. I've heard leaders even say that this phenomena will pass and people will return. I doubt it. One of the things I believe people are seeking is not independence but freedom. Freedom from the laws imposed by the church in order to live by the Spirit. People, especially young people, want freedom and interdependence...and, truth. From my experience, things fairly atypical in the "traditional" church. Another observation is the hunger in people to be significant, to make a difference in the world they live in. I believe one of the huge driving forces behind the phenomena taking place is that people want to take action to make a difference rather than sit in a pew. People truly want to be the hands, feet and voice of Christ in the world, but rarely does the Church offer a means for this to take place. Why do most churches focus on ministries to the members of the church rather than equipping the members to minister outside the church? Why is there so little emphasis (check the budget out to see where are the real priorties of a church) placed on mission as a lifestyle? I believe the church of tomorrow will offer freedom, interdependence and a means for people to make a difference where they live...whether that church is 2 or 3 people gathered together or hundreds coming together in one place. I don’t know what the church of the future will look like…definitely different from today in many ways. My observations are that people leaving the “traditional” church because they are frustrated in a couple of ways. Church leaders may label the phenomena as people just wanting independence or not willing to be “subject to authority” or some other rationalization. I’ve heard leaders even say that this phenomena will pass and people will return. I doubt it.

One of the things I believe people are seeking is not independence but freedom. Freedom from the laws imposed by the church in order to live by the Spirit. People, especially young people, want freedom and interdependence…and, truth. From my experience, things fairly atypical in the “traditional” church.

Another observation is the hunger in people to be significant, to make a difference in the world they live in. I believe one of the huge driving forces behind the phenomena taking place is that people want to take action to make a difference rather than sit in a pew. People truly want to be the hands, feet and voice of Christ in the world, but rarely does the Church offer a means for this to take place.

Why do most churches focus on ministries to the members of the church rather than equipping the members to minister outside the church? Why is there so little emphasis (check the budget out to see where are the real priorties of a church) placed on mission as a lifestyle?

I believe the church of tomorrow will offer freedom, interdependence and a means for people to make a difference where they live…whether that church is 2 or 3 people gathered together or hundreds coming together in one place.

]]> Comment on What will church “look like” in the VineAge (future)? by Tom Henstock http://timg.vineage.com/discussions/what-%e2%80%9cwill%e2%80%9d-church-look-like-in-the-vineage-future/#comment-22 Tom Henstock Fri, 03 Aug 2007 04:16:40 +0000 http://timg.vineage.com/discussions/what-%e2%80%9cwill%e2%80%9d-church-look-like-in-the-vineage-future/#comment-22 Jesus said, "I will build my church." According to the new covenant, the blood of Christ purchased forgiveness of sins, and those fathered by God enter the kingdom of God. It is these new creations in Christ and by the Holy Spirit who God calls "My people," and they call Him, "Their God." Those in Christ have the law of God written on their hearts and minds, and learn to know God and to be led into all truth by the indwelling Spirit of God. Now, the totality of these people recreated in the image of Christ form up the universal church: "The church." When they assemble to worship God the Father, they are "a church." In the New Testament we read about the church in the house of Nympha (Colossians 4:15) This church was an assembly of people, a congregation. It is clear that the church that Jesus has continued to build is the same as the one he began to build, for he and His Father do not change. But, we have endless iterations of material structures, power structures, and mere human organizations that stand in place of the kingdom of God, new creations in Christ, and the new covenant that reconciles humanity to God through one mediator, the man, Christ Jesus. How else can we explain the myriad (in ancient Greek 10,000) organizations all claiming to be "the way"? What will the church look like? Fortunately, the church in Antioch was made up of people who were given a contemporary and derogatory name, "little Christs" or Christians. The church is comprised of people who look like their Lord and Savior – in mind, heart and spirit. Second John 9 describes only two kinds of people: "Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son." The source of Christ's teaching is where we find what the church looks like. Jesus said, “I will build my church.” According to the new covenant, the blood of Christ purchased forgiveness of sins, and those fathered by God enter the kingdom of God. It is these new creations in Christ and by the Holy Spirit who God calls “My people,” and they call Him, “Their God.” Those in Christ have the law of God written on their hearts and minds, and learn to know God and to be led into all truth by the indwelling Spirit of God.

Now, the totality of these people recreated in the image of Christ form up the universal church: “The church.” When they assemble to worship God the Father, they are “a church.” In the New Testament we read about the church in the house of Nympha (Colossians 4:15) This church was an assembly of people, a congregation.

It is clear that the church that Jesus has continued to build is the same as the one he began to build, for he and His Father do not change. But, we have endless iterations of material structures, power structures, and mere human organizations that stand in place of the kingdom of God, new creations in Christ, and the new covenant that reconciles humanity to God through one mediator, the man, Christ Jesus. How else can we explain the myriad (in ancient Greek 10,000) organizations all claiming to be “the way”?

What will the church look like? Fortunately, the church in Antioch was made up of people who were given a contemporary and derogatory name, “little Christs” or Christians. The church is comprised of people who look like their Lord and Savior – in mind, heart and spirit.

Second John 9 describes only two kinds of people: “Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.” The source of Christ’s teaching is where we find what the church looks like.

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